POWER SUPPLIES

[Guest Deeswift]

.:. POWER SUPPLIES .:.

 

Originally posted at DV1 by Liam.

 

_______________________

 

 

GUILTY AS CHARGED! I lifted this post from another forum because it is more comprehensive than anything I could take the time to write.

 

Please read it, I know PSU's aren't exciting but this is important stuff.

 

 

First things first. If you've got a poor-quality and/or faulty power supply, nothing else you do will work to solve your problems. Stick to the basics before you go further...The short answer is to buy a hi-powered, brand name supply, like the new ENERMAX line (430 W or higher) or ANTEC True550. Almost nothing else will do with today's computers. In over 30 years of electronic/computer service, I have found that 85% or more of problems were power-related.

 

If you want to know more, read on...

 

 

CHOOSING THE RIGHT POWER SUPPLY

 

If you’re reading this, there’s a good chance that one of my colleagues or I believe that you could be experiencing problems with your power supply, based upon the symptoms you mentioned in your post, and provided you with this link. Relax, you’re not alone. In 30 years of electronic and computer troubleshooting, I’d say that the majority of the electronic, mainframe, mini, and microcomputer problems I’ve diagnosed and repaired were with the basic power the problematic device was receiving. The symptoms often included random reboots, crashing, the BSOD, lockups, etc.

 

(As the national support technician for few major computer service companies, working US Defense contracts, I was often the person that had to fly in and correct the problem, or “walk through†the on-site technician as he closely followed my instructions. I achieved success in my career by carefully reading the manuals, knowing where to go for more information that was otherwise unavailable to me, and/or systematically troubleshooting until the problems were discovered and repaired. I never had the option of giving up.)

 

The most overlooked component when building or upgrading a PC is the power supply unit (PSU). Some people use their old case and PSU when they upgrade. Some use the PSU that came with their new case. Some people even buy a new PSU. And most inexperienced builders all make the same mistake: The PSU that they’re trying to use is simply inadequate for the job.

 

Suppose you’re upgrading to a new motherboard, CPU, ram, and video card, but still using the old case and PSU. It’s most likely that you’re upgrading in order to build a machine that is more powerful, faster, has a more colorful display, can number-crunch more quickly, play the latest games, etc. These gains in performance all have one thing in common: They require more raw power. However, have you thought about where that power comes from?

 

Suppose you’re building a new system with a new case and PSU. Has it occurred to you that the company that you bought the case/PSU from might make more money if they skimp on the supply, even if the supply has a large wattage rating? Most bulk power supply manufacturers don’t make good PSU’s. They use older, cheaper technology, and slap on labels that represent the PSU’s peak outputs, and not their continuous output rating. These companies are intentionally misleading you in order to sell you an inferior product. Brands I avoid when building/repairing my friends’ and family’s computers: Allied, Q-Tec, Chieftech, and many others.

 

For those of you who bought a power supply separately, did you know that you’re only supposed to run a power supply continuously at 30-70% (with 50% being optimal) of its continuous rating for maximum efficiency (which means less heat to you)? Most inexperienced builders either buy PSU’s that are matched to their equipment’s continuous power usage, or ones that are even less powerful than they need. Why? Because they’re trying to save money.

 

I mean, what’s the fun in a power supply? You don’t get any games with it, there’s no more storage, hardly ever any more bells and whistles, etc. A power supply is boring, and it’s supposed to be, because it’s supposed to provide a stable, reliable platform upon which the rest of the equipment can easily access the amount of power it needs, and when it’s needed. In almost EVERY review of powers supplies, the same point is stressed: Better safe than sorry.

 

But what does safe vs sorry mean? It can mean that you don’t have to waste money on the wrong PSU in the first place, but it can also mean that you don’t have to replace your expensive ram, CPU, video card, etc. NEEDLESSLY, or because your cheap PSU destroyed them. What? A cheap power supply can wreck your computer? YES IT CAN. A cheap power supply can cause thermal damage, not only from the heat it produces, but also the heat it can create in your components as well. RAM is especially sensitive to heat, and there’s RAM in your CPU, your video cards, and, well, your RAM too. A cheap switching power supply, run at its maximum, or peak, continuously can also destroy components by creating RF (Radio Frequency) signals on your power rails, signals which the components on your peripheral devices were not equipped to handle in the first place.

 

 

So this begs the question, how does one choose the right power supply? I’ll illustrate this using my own PC as the example. This is my setup that I use for video processing:

 

K7N2G-ILSR

Athlon 2500+ Barton @ 2125Mhz

AMD Retail Heatsink/Fan

2 - 512MB DDR333 w/Thermaltake Spreaders (slot 1&3)

MSI TV@nywhere Video Capture

ATI Radeon 9600

120GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 SATA

30GB Quantum IDE

TEAC DV-W50E DVD/CD-R/W

BTC DVD-ROM Drive

Artec CD-R/W

 

 

Using this Power Supply Calculator link:

 

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

 

I plug in all my equipment values, but some of this can be a little tricky. For example, since I often run the CPU like an XP 3000, I choose the 3000 as my processor; it’s the same chip run at the faster rate. I also choose the ATI Radeon video card, and I select the RAM wattage for 2 sticks of DDR. I also choose every card I have, like my video capture card, but I also select the boxes for the separate cards that correspond to the functions that my ILSR provides as well (and that I use), like sound, USB, Firewire, NIC, etc. Although I use the onboard SATA controller, I don’t select the SCSI PCI card, because, in truth, I’ve probably made up for it by selecting all the other corresponding devices, including cards that the motherboard replaces. I check the boxes for the fans and drives I use, and I’m done, right?

 

Not yet.

 

I just remembered that I plan to upgrade soon, so I go back and change the values to reflect my impending changes. I mean, I want to make sure that I have enough power to begin with so that I don’t have to replace the power supply again, right?

 

Ok. Done. I look at the bottom and see that it tells me that I need a 468 watt PSU. So a 480 watt supply will do, right? Wrong.

 

Remember that, for efficiency, long-life, and less heat, you want your actual power consumption to fall between 30-70% of the PSU’s rating, so add 30% (minimum) to the 468, and you get 468 + (468*.30)= 608 Watts! Holy Cow!

 

However, I’d only need a 608-Watt supply if I was using all the devices at once, and I don’t. But, in truth, with video and audio processing, I often get close when I process, burn, and monitor at the same time. (Hardcore gamers also get close a lot, as they blast the sound and push that video to its limits.) So, let’s take off 10% (maximum) of 608, for a total of 541 Watts.

 

I need a 550 Watt supply, but not just ANY 550 watt PSU. I need a supply that can give me enough power on the critical 3.3, 5, and 12V rails combined. I also want a supply from a trusted, name-brand manufacturer, so I start hitting the many online reviews. Here are just two from Tom’s Hardware:

 

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html

 

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html

 

Read these in their entirety. I didn’t post them because they’re pretty links.

 

In the end, I chose Antec, because they’ve got the reputation, the recommendation, and because the Antec True550 has better specs than the rest of the 550 Watt competition. I also bought it from a reputable company I found on Pricegrabber.com, for the lowest price I could find, $95.00 shipped to my door. (In truth, I wanted two mini-redundant supplies, like the hospitals and military use, but they were too expensive.)

 

The result? Not only are the random reboots, crashing, the BSOD, lockups, etc., gone like magic, but I also now have “peace of mind†in that whatever might happen to my equipment in the future, I know almost for certain that the PSU is NOT the problem. I also bought an UPS, because the East Coast Blackout proved to me that even the Antec True550 isn’t going to provide me any power for emergency shutdown if it doesn’t get its power from somewhere.

 

Even if your problem doesn’t lie in the PSU completely, it gives you a GREAT platform for troubleshooting further. If you’re not reasonably certain that the supply is the cause, borrow one, or buy one that you can return once you’ve solved the problem. But, above all else, BUY THE RIGHT SUPPLY before you do anything else! Otherwise, you could be plugging and unplugging components, buying and blowing up expensive memory, and causing even further damage, until you give up or die.

 

I mean, I assume you built your own system to enjoy “more bang for your buck,†right? What’s the fun of a random reboot in the middle of Unreal Tournament 2003?

 

William Hopkins

Former Staff Sergeant, USAF

B.A., B.S., with Honors

The University of California, San Diego

Clarkkent57@hotmail.com

 

P.S. It should be noted that while Enermax, ThermalTake, Zalman, Fortron, and others make great PSU’s, and I compared and considered them, the Antec still won out overall in my critical evaluation, like it did in so may others’ reviews. You’d probably be ok if you went with another reputable manufacturer as listed above, but pick a supply that gives you at least 230 watts on the 3.3 and 5V lines combined, and still meets the 30% criteria as stated above. Remember, if the manufacturers don’t give you maximum combined specs up front, they’re untrustworthy right off the bat. With power supplies, you definitely end up getting what you pay for. Don’t say nobody warned you.

 

P.P.S. Update! After recent developments, it looks like Enermax is the leader, but only the latest line of PSU's.

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Like I say, BORING stuff but ESSENTIAL for a stable system and CRITICAL for overclocking.

 

Hope this was useful.

[Guest Deeswift]

I'd like to add that 99% of the information in the post above still holds true, but this article is slightly out of date. While Enermax and Antec are generally good and recommended PSU's, there are other brands which I feel are superior. A particularly good brand which I use myself is Tagan, a german company with an excellent pedigree and great products.

 

The model I am using is the TG480-U01, a 480 watt silent power supply with very inmpressive numbers on the rails and excellent internal and external build quality. Details of my own AMD Athlon 64 rig are in my profile, along with the PSU's basic spec, and you can see this by clicking on my username.

 

 

Some reviews of the Tagan unit can be found here:

@ Hexus.net

 

@ 3DVelocity.com

 

@ OCPrices.com

 

 

While the Antec models, and especially Enermax are good choices, I would recommend the Tagan. Another manufacturer, OCZ, is also making a top notch PSU called the PowerStream. This is very similar internally to the Tagan, but features adjustable pots for all rails. It looks beautiful too.

 

 

[Clownstyle]

Thanks for that info dee...Nice post.

 

Im thinking about building me a new pc. Did you find it a pain in the arse building it bit by bit? Because thats what ive gotta do!!!

 

I not sure what parts i would like to put in the new box but ..... Let me know how your new pc performs and i might even copy your specs

[Guest Deeswift]

Mate, it's simple. I had no knowledge of building PC's 4 or 5 months ago, and after studying it and carefully researching the best products I found it pretty straight forward. There's no doubt, Athlon 64 offers amazing price to performance ratio, especially now the prices have come right down. Anything you wanna know mate, I'll gladly help. I'll let you know how my own machine performs next week when it's finally done, just waiting for memory. I can guarantee it'll fly though. I'll take pics and give a breakdown of how it all came together soon. A lot of reading and asking questions (and almost 3,000 posts since March on http://forums.amd.com -- username is ninjastyle), I feel like I could build another machine in a couple of hours...

[Clownstyle]

Yea lemme know how you get on. I have built pc`s before. PC fairs are DOPEEE for picking up cheap/probably stolen hardware!!

 

Just think your specs look sweet and wondering how much it all cost ya?!

[Guest Deeswift]

Can't remember the exact cost, I've yet to total it all up, but I think it's around £900 for the base unit. I need a better monitor though, and that'll probably be a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 19" (CRT, of course).

[Guest Deeswift]

I just found my shopping (or shocking?) list:

 

CPU .:. £209.48 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ [1MB L2 cache] [socket 754] [Clawhammer core]

 

Mainboard .:. £103.63 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

MSI K8N Neo Platinum [nForce 3-250]

 

Graphics .:. £182.10 .:. www.ebuyer.co.uk --

HIS Excalibur 9800 Pro IceQ [with Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer]

 

HDD .:. £79.40 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 160GB SATA 8MB Cache

 

Case .:. £155.40 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

Cooler Master Wave Master; Black.

 

Power Supply .:. £71.68 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

Tagan TG480-U01 480 watt silent PSU

 

Thermal Insulation Material .:. £9.65 .:. www.overclockers.co.uk --

Arctic Silver 5

 

Optical Drive .:. £135 .:. www.amazon.co.uk --

Sony DRU-510AK DVD±RW

 

RAM .:. £88.11 .:. www.crucial.co.uk --

512 MB Crucial Ballistix PC3200 @ 2-2-2-6 timings (another 512MB to come soon)

 

TOTAL = £1123.09

 

*Total includes postage and 1 extra 512 stick RAM, as planned. I didn't include a couple of extra case fan cables or anti-static wrist strap.

 

 

Didn't realize I'd spent that much. Not bad for a man with no job. Bear in mind that certain components have dropped in price a little since I bought my stuff though. I could build the same rig now for maybe £100 less.

[Clownstyle]

............shocking list

 

 

[Liam]

No doubt the Tagan is great, probabbly better than the Enermax/Antec, but those are the tried, tested and trusted models of the more experienced builders, so I'd still recomend these as best.

 

Clown, PC's are a piece of piss to build and you're a smart guy who has an interest in these thing so you'll have a ball mate.

 

The most fun thing is what to do with the old bits, I'm building a 'loopstation' PC in an old record box soon

[Guest Deeswift]

Yep, Antec and Enermax are old trusted brands, there's nothing wrong with them, but look at Tagan's pedigree, they're all ex-workers from more famous manufacturers. The reason they got the company together was because they weren't satisfied with other manufacturers. Go figure. I can vouch for the quality of the TG480-U01 first hand. This PSU can't even be heard in my rig and provides more than enough juice to power a large server without sweating it.

 

Rather than writing anything here see my thread on the AMD board and see why I vote for Tagan above any other PSU:

 

http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=20464&hl=tagan

[Liam]

It's the old argument that you can't really say for certain until the product has been established a few years. Like I said, the Tagan is probabbly much better, but until it is out a few years, you can't really say. Unlike a chip or GPU, a PSU is really a long-term component.

 

But, yes, if I had the cash I'd get the Tagan...

[Guest Deeswift]

It's usually cheaper than the equivalent Antec or Enermax. Some stores are selling the 480 at rip off prices such as £110, but it can be had for about £65 @ scan.co.uk. I paid £71 from overclockers.co.uk.

 

A couple of interesting threads on exploding Antec's:

 

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthrea...highlight=antec

 

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthrea...30&pagenumber=1

 

 

 

...Proving that sometimes how long a product has been established doesn't mean much.

[Dan]

TOTAL = £1123.09

 

Not bad for a man with no job.

 

how the fuck did you pay for it all then mate?!?!? between me and my g/f we bring in 28k before tax and we are always skint!!!!!

[Guest Deeswift]

I saved gradually since march. Guess I'm just good at saving up.

[Dan]

I saved gradually since march. Guess I'm just good at saving up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

save up for me then mate!

[Guest Deeswift]

LOL, OK. I'll give you a bank account number so you can pay your wages into it...

[Dan]

LOL, OK. I'll give you a bank account number so you can pay your wages into it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Great! Thanks! ...........wait a minute! let me think about it first................

 

[Guest Deeswift]

BUMP.

[djdj]

Just the info I needed, Thanks Boss!

[Guest Deeswift]

Good, glad to help. I think useful topics need to be bumped once in a while otherwise no one knows they're here.